We caught up with the brilliant and insightful Paul Gunn a few weeks ago and have shared our conversation below.
Hi Paul, thank you so much for agreeing to open up about a sensitive and personal topic like being fired or laid-off. Unfortunately, there has been a rise in layoffs recently and so your insight and experience with overcoming being let go is relevant to so many in the community.
Overcoming setbacks, rejections, failures… anytime when something doesn’t go according to plan can be very difficult. As humans, we tend to crave habit, comfort, stability and predictability. However, as an artist, my entire life has been filled with complete uncertainty. Sometimes I don’t find out till last minute whether or not a booking is confirmed. Sometimes, clients cancel last minute. In the past, I was rejected; A LOT. In the past, there wasn’t many roles written for Asian men in western pop culture or media.
Something I learned that helps me come to accept situations, circumstances and setbacks is a story I heard from philosopher and theologist Alan Watts called The Farmer and the Horse:
There was once a farmer who owned a prized stallion. The horse stood very tall, regal and proud, it’s coat was shiny, with a long, thick, full mane and tail. The horse looked like it was a royal nobleman’s horse. When it galloped, it looked like watching sheer poetry in motion, smooth, graceful, powerful, symmetric and effortless. People from all over the country would come and marvel at the incredibly beautiful animal.
One night, the horse escaped out of it’s stable and ran away into the dark of night. The following days, when towns people would encounter the farmer, they would say, “What a bad stroke of luck! Your prized stallion ran away! What will you do now?”. The farmer would simply look back and say, “Who knows? Maybe not and maybe so.”
A few days later, the stallion not only returned but, brought back with it a whole herd of new horses! The townspeople would run into the farmer and say, “What a wonderful stroke of luck! You not only regained your stallion, but, now you have an entire herd of horses to add to your stable!” The farmer would simply look back and say, “Who knows? Maybe not and maybe so.”
A couple of days following, the farmer’s son was riding one of the new horses, teaching it how to be ridden and breaking it in. The horse became frightened, reared up and bucked the farmer’s son off and he fell to the ground and broke his leg. Townspeople ran into the farmer would say, “What an unfortunate circumstance! Your son broke his leg and will take some time to recover. What will you do when it comes time for harvest? It’s very near.” The farmer would simply look back and say, “Who knows? Maybe not and maybe so.”
The following day, the army came into town and drafted all able-bodied men to fight in the war. Many were expected to not make it home or, may come back paralyzed, missing limbs or with post traumatic stress.
But, because the farmer’s son’s leg was broken, the military did not recruit him.
So, the events that we label as being “good” events or “bad” events are all just events. When looking back in retrospect, there were many real-life situations in my life where I was rejected from something, only to put me in a better place to do what I am doing now. For instance, when I was with the Chippendales, I worked very hard for them and tried in vain to appeal to them; they had their favorites and I was not one of them. They did not extend my contract on multiple occasions which forced me to go to another show in Vegas called Tournament of Kings, which is a live, medeival stunt show. And, from TOK, I began my journey into the stunt world and later, towards acting, which is ultimately what I wanted to be.
Looking back, best case scenario: if Chips had valued me, and wanted me to continue working for them, I probably would not bother challenging myself in becoming an actor, therefore, I would’ve gone so far as to be a production or tour manager, artistic director or casting person for Chippendales. I would probably rest on my laurels and would NOT have challenged myself to become an actor.
So, sometimes, you never know whether or not a tragic event or unforeseen circumstance might actually be a blessing in disguise. And, this helps me move forward and embrace something new and to not go backwards, because you cannot get more value by giving someone who does not value you or your work or services by giving them MORE of what they do NOT value. Or, that life will figure out the best path of least resistance and lead everyone as a whole to a better place that suits them, in the broader scope or bigger picture. Just concentrate on moving forward and letting go.
Appreciate the insights and wisdom. Before we dig deeper and ask you about the skills that matter and more, maybe you can tell our readers about yourself?
I specialize in being an actor, producer and stuntman these days. I made the move to Los Angeles in 2016, after performing for 16 years on the Las Vegas Strip. I have worked on projects such as Bullet Train, Free Guy, Snake Eyes, The Mandalorian and I was Taika Waititi’s photo double in Our Flag Means Death.
I was a shy, skinny, bespectacled teenager and immigrant from Thailand growing up in Dallas, Texas. I was not good at sports. I asked my parents if they would send me back to Thailand to learn Muay Thai or Thai Boxing. My mother rejected the idea. And, it so happened that I liked singing in choir and there was an elite program at my high school which taught basic step-touch, partnering and tap work along with singing. I just happened to have the coordination, balance and rhythm to do well as an untrained dancer.
I became more interested in dance and I went to a nearby dance school. I worked enough nerve to one day, walk in, ask to speak to the owner or manager. (Her name was Diane Cole Johnson; she and her husband Mike passed a few years ago.) I introduced myself, told her I was in the choir program at my high school and asked if I can take dance classes and in return, I would perform in their recital and compete for them. She agreed and let me attend any classes I wanted to. This was Texas and there were not many male dancers in town at the time. She probably thought I would fizzle out after a couple of classes, but I kept coming back. I kept learning and became good enough to audition and perform at the local them park, Six Flags Over Texas, then Astroworld in Houston, Texas and eventually on Princess Cruises. The cruise line was my ticket out of Texas.
Working on the ships not only allowed me to travel and practice my craft, but also allowed me to watch other performers on the ships. It was a learning experience to watch comedians, xylophone players, magicians, ventriloquists, hypnotists, gymnasts, musicians and many other artists perform. I learned how they structured their shows, how they responded to unforeseen circumstances or hecklers in the audience. It also gave me my emceeing and public speaking skills. After a few years on cruise ships, I married an European casino dealer and we moved to Las Vegas. I performed in multiple shows on the Strip. I gained many new skills and worked with many known celebrities and names. Eventually, after two divorces, I made another move to Los Angeles in my forties to become an actor and stuntman.
For whatever reason, whenever I was met with having to learn a new skill or craft, I found a way to embrace learning and tried not to be resistant to learning. It took me to many places, let me meet many notable people and gave me the opportunity have a life less traveled and some very unique, memorable experiences.
Humility is teachability. And this gave me many more tools and tricks that I can use as a performer.
Looking back, what do you think were the three qualities, skills, or areas of knowledge that were most impactful in your journey? What advice do you have for folks who are early in their journey in terms of how they can best develop or improve on these?
The three things that helped me are:
1. Having a relentless desire to pursue my passion. It’s not what you do once in a while; it’s what you do regularly and practice, over a long period of time. You will most definitely suck at doing something for the first time. As long as you do not quit and continue practicing, you will develop skill in that field over a period of time.
2. Having humility. Humility is teachability. When we are closed minded or resistant to learning, it will be harder to learn things. Imagine someone who gets to a certain point in their life and they feel that they know all there is to know about a certain subject and they no longer listen to advice or constructive criticism. That person will have gone as far as they can in that field because they are resistant to new ways at being more proficient or new trends or demands for that skill or craft. My personal mantra is that I am always a student and never a master; this way, I am more open to new schools of thought or new techniques in the field, which means, I will only become better as time goes on.
3. Accepting my own shortcomings and flaws. I used to be insecure and feel the need to prove myself. It tended to lead to bitterness and I was always in a state of self imposed self-hatred. When I learned to laugh at things, laugh at myself, that took all the stress and pressure off me. I flowed so much better when I approached things from a fun, happy place. When we do things from a place of love and passion, our work will excel. When we approach doing things from a place of annoyance, pressure, non-desire or stress, our work will usually tend to not be quite as good.
Okay, so before we go, is there anyone you’d like to shoutout for the role they’ve played in helping you develop the essential skills or overcome challenges along the way?
Truthfully, there have been so many people that have helped contribute to my journey. My mother helped to set the foundation of who I am. She is very structured, disciplined and focused. I learned my work ethics from my mom, who is an immigrant from Thailand, who had to learned to read, write and speak an entirely new language and worked multiple jobs to make ends meet. She worked A LOT and did not complain.
My high school choir teacher, Jim Sparks, believed i can do better. When I resorted to making lazy choices, he made sure I knew my worth and challenged me to be bolder and to trust myself.
Numerous performers whom I’ve had the chance to watch and learn from, on the cruise ship and on the Vegas Strip, although they may not have realized it. They taught me how to behave, how to treat audiences and co-workers both on AND offstage.
Finally, the person who inspires me everyday, supports, gives me feedback, advises, teaches me about effective staging and communication techniques is my other half, Jo Anna Heckman. She has an extensive knowledge about the performing world. She is a ballroom dance champion and teacher, so, we both excel at dance together. She has an unequaled sense of humor and improv ability. We would talk and improv together and each try to come up with weird situations or phrases, try to top each other with our weirdness and laugh with each other like little children. She has, by far made me into a much better actor as well as a much better person. I am grateful for finding her and with her being by my side.
Contact Info:
- Website: www.showgunn.com
- Instagram: @paulgunnactor
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gunn.paul
- Twitter: @paulgunnactor
Image Credits
Rob Flate, Apollo GT, David Greenhouse, Jo Anna Heckman and Killer Imaging.
