We were lucky to catch up with Jackie Golob recently and have shared our conversation below.
Jackie, we’re so excited for our community to get to know you and learn from your journey and the wisdom you’ve acquired over time. Let’s kick things off with a discussion on self-confidence and self-esteem. How did you develop yours?
I developed my confidence and self-esteem by breaking down shame, calling out shit for what it is, picking and choosing my battles, and trusting my intuition.
Let’s talk about intuition first. Oftentimes, people, a lot of the time, therapists, will say things like, “Feelings aren’t facts,” and when those gut instincts or intuitions come true, it is confirmation that you can trust yourself in those moments. Back in 2020 during the Covid-19 pandemic, I got a text from my mom, saying something along the lines of, “Can you come over tomorrow after your training, I need to talk to you.” My heart dropped into the pit of my stomach, I knew something was wrong. I called her immediately and asked what was wrong, she said she needed to talk to me in person about what was going on and we would discuss it tomorrow. We hung up the phone, said I love you, and I told my partner, I know something is off. I had a gut feeling that one of two things happened. She either got f*cked over out of her retirement package from being let go the September prior, or two, she had been diagnosed with Breast Cancer. I knew deep down inside it was the second one, and told my partner in the moment. He tried to reassure me and said if it could wait until tomorrow I’m sure it’s not that bad, but I knew he was wrong. I went over after my training, which was all about grief loss, told my mother and father I thought one of two things would happen, and said I think I know it is the second one. My mom started tearing up and confirmed it, she had been diagnosed with Breast Cancer and she was crying, as did I. I knew that was the moment to never let anyone tell me what I was feeling was wrong. Some psychics would say that was my clairsentience and cognizance kicking in, which it was. At the time I was going through an earth-shattering spiritual awakening, dark knight of the soul, psychic gifts kicking in, and my Saturn return all at once. If you know, you know that this shit is heavy.
I got home and told my partner I was right, he was wrong, and he needed to stop gaslighting my emotions, especially when they were on point. He, of course, apologized cause that’s what he does, owns his shit, and held me as I cried. When I told my therapist a few weeks later about that experience, she brushed off my emotions as if it wasn’t a big deal. She said I had magical thinking, and it was kind of a, “So what?” moment. Had I known that I had more spiritual gifts at the time, I would have called out that shame and probably been pretty pissed at the moment. Safe to say I fired that therapist after a few more sessions to see if it could work, which I knew deep down inside my emotions were valid, but why couldn’t she tell me that at the time or hold space?
If something doesn’t feel right in a situation, it’s not right. A lot of times, we don’t hold space for our feelings, emotions, and spidey senses, when we damn well need to. Sensitivity and trusting your feelings can be a superpower, an inner compass, or a guidance system if you will. I’ve learned to trust my intuition, speak up in situations, talk about my feelings, and not gaslight or shame myself for having them. Sometimes this looks like questioning yourself, other people making you question yourself, holding emotions in, avoiding them, or even saying sorry when you cry. When you tell people how you are feeling, what you are feeling, and being honest about this, that is a self-esteem booster and confidence moment. Rather than doing the fake smile and saying, “I’m good how are you?” that’s such automatic programming, sharing how you are truly feeling about something in the moment is one of the most vulnerable things you can do. That is shame work, not avoiding, controlling, deflecting, ignoring, or redirecting, it is being with those emotions and saying how you truly feel.
Let’s talk about calling out shit for what it is. Growing up, I was very inquisitive, questioned a lot of things that seemed off, and often was met with resistance of, “I’ll tell you when you’re older.” Which was super frustrating as a curious kid and I’d find out about many family secrets, drama, and trauma along the way. A lot of people would spill the tea to me anyway. I grew up with a lot of shame and complex trauma. When people cried, they apologized. I felt like crying was a bad thing, shameful, and as if it were wrong to show or share my emotions. There were shameful narratives of, “Respect your elders,” in which case, I took as being respectful to all of those older than you, especially parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, coaches, school staff, and anyone else helping you in life. This came from my Polish-American side of the family, if you know, you know there’s a lot of shame and complex trauma in this culture. My Babcia (Grandma) and Dziadzia (Grandpa), were Holocaust Survivors and put in a work camp because they were Polish. They had to escape the Nazis and came over to the States when they were around ages 13-14. My Babcia saw her aunt get shot and die when her aunt was trying to hop on the back of a wagon to escape. My Bacbia was there with her sister hiding underneath hay, on the wagon, to escape the war.
Here’s how I come into all of this. Due to these messages of shame, I didn’t talk much or show emotions in school growing up and felt like I had to be quiet so I didn’t cause chaos. With my dad being a special education teacher, I didn’t want to get in trouble with any teachers or school. My whole life teachers would say I was really quiet and didn’t talk. I got the feedback from my parents you need to talk in class Jackie and this was so confusing. I thought I was being respectful and nobody explained to me the importance of participating in school or speaking up. I learned this would be a lesson that would come back around in grad school for me to work on my shame. Before we get into that, let’s bring it back to some other dynamics that are important to understand first in regards to calling shit out and picking and choosing your battles.
When I had to do a Genogram, aka family map, of my big ass Polish family which was 7 uncles and my mom, their kids, and then my dad’s side, the Slovenian side, 5 sisters, my dad, and their kids, someone tried to gaslight me when I said Babcia was sexually abused. When I heard a story about my Dziadzia getting drunk at Christmas, from a cousin, she told me that he was chasing Babcia around the table trying to have sex with her. Other rumblings over the years were that she didn’t want to have sex and yet 8 kids later came. Thank gosh we didn’t go to Christmas that year when I told someone in my family as they saw me draw the abuse lines from him to my Babcia on my Genogram. This person told me, “Well, she was his wife, she couldn’t have been sexually abused.” When I told my dad that, he hit the roof. I was pissed, I told this person, no, that is one of the biggest myths about sexual abuse and you can’t say that! People need to truly learn about abuse, trauma, and complex trauma more. This is the type of shit I needed to call in my family of those who would be willing to listen and learn. My Dziadzia died when I was about 7 or 8, whether people in my family agree with me or not, he was extremely emotionally, physically, sexually, and psychologically, abusive. Which influenced the undiagnosed mental health in my family.
My Babcia didn’t like talking about the Holocaust much, cause why would she? Hello Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, she was just trying to survive. The problem with that is, that she never had a voice, never made decisions for herself, was codependent on other people, only went to therapy for a little bit, and took medications for this from time to time. Family members would shame me when I saw her mental health get worse later on in life and told them that medications were only 20% of the equation. Family members tried to shame me by saying she’s on great meds, that’s all she needs, and she doesn’t need therapy. When I called them out and said no that is a lie and if the family truly cares about her mental health, she needs to keep going to therapy. I truly called (claircognizance) that something was wrong with her memory, leading to either symptom of early onset Alzheimer’s or Dementia or something that dealt with the neurological memory functioning parts of her brain. Sure as shit, I spoke up in 2012 about this, and it wasn’t till years later that the family decided to get help when she was diagnosed. When you don’t talk about your feelings, emotions, shame, or complex trauma, the cycle repeats itself generationally. I learned that it is important to speak the f*ck up, especially when it comes to shame, otherwise, that complex trauma is going to take longer to heal in your life.
At times when I’ve shared that my Babcia and Dziadzia were Holocaust survivors, I’ve been met with gaslighting, shame, and especially during a time after she had passed in 2021. A family member shamed me and said, “Jackie. Lovely post on FB but I wanted to share with you that your grandparents were not Jewish, thus they were not Holocaust survivors. That only applies to Jewish people. Concentration camps had people from many faiths, but they were not all Holocaust survivors. That only applies to Jewish people,” which was an intellectual, emotional, and psychological abuse and shame statement. I never said anything about my grandparents being Jewish, what the actual f*ck I thought and wanted to say to this person go read a book. My post didn’t even address concentration camps, it was all about work camps, which they were forced into. I had also taken the Psychology of the Holocaust during undergrad, where I had to research and write a paper on how it wasn’t just the Jews who survived or passed from the Holocaust. The professor wanted to bring awareness to this part of history and psychology since it was not talked about a lot. This professor was Polish and it was so great talking to her about this. This person’s comments, from my family, were extremely ignorant and wrong. I was deeply upset and realized she was not even worth my time or energy. She had and probably still has, a lot of work to do on her own. It was not, and still is not, my job to take responsibility for her lack of education or try to be more knowledgeable about people’s experiences in history. I didn’t waste my time, breath, or energy on her, she didn’t deserve it. This is when you have to pick and choose your battles. I was not and am still not close with this “family,” member, nor do I ever want to be. Now, let’s come back to part two of how this came up in graduate school.
In graduate school when studying to become a therapist, speaking up was challenged by my professors and small group. I loved soaking in all the information, listening to my group members, and hearing people’s thoughts on what we were discussing. It was pointed out to me by my group members that when I was quiet, it felt like I was judging them, which I had felt like it was the total opposite. Learning that I had an avoidant attachment style at the time, probably didn’t help this situation. I was holding space for them to speak, loved to hear what they had to say, and shared I’m the type of person who doesn’t share opinions a lot, unless I truly feel the need to, or my point hasn’t been said. They told me they loved to hear what I had to say and wanted to know my thoughts more in our group. I realized I had cut off my voice like I was cut off from those conversations growing up. Learning about group dynamics challenged me to speak the f*ck up. When I did, I was challenged more because it was pointed out to me that I had shameful responses of an inner critic and a caregiver/helper role in the group. I didn’t want to ask for help and would make self-deprecating, sarcastic, comments about myself. My professors pushed me to work on this and be with my emotions because at the time I thought I had to, “keep them in check,” I know, gross, cringe. That was the shame of hiding secrets, feelings, and emotions growing up that I realized I needed to work on. Trust me when I say I learned that lesson hard in grad school, started to use my voice, ask for help, and make this more consistent near the end. My professors taught us to advocate for ourselves and honestly, that’s one of the best lessons I learned.
I was finishing up graduate school, an internship, my sex therapy certificate coursework, and working full-time as a recruiter. Don’t recommend all of this at once. I stayed as a recruiter while I was searching for my first therapy job after classes and internship had been over. I had gotten a new boss who had been doing one-on-ones with the team. I knew I wasn’t prioritized because I was just a temp, which also had a shaming stigma to it. I never really felt like I was a part of the team fully, which was okay for me because I was there to work and that was my focus. Honestly, after a month into the job, I was the best recruiter, pulling out the highest interview numbers week after week since I had been there. I was a damn good temp if you ask me. When this new boss decided to have a one-on-one with me, changes were happening within our team, which if you don’t know anything about recruiting, happens often because people are burnt out working in sh*tty corporate America and want to leave or get fired when life happens. This boss sat down with me and asked if I would be interested in marketing or desking aka when you fill job placements for whose hiring. I told her no. I had set 16 interviews in one day last week, and that has been a norm for me, on top of completing more interviews anywhere from 30-40 in a week. She nodded her head, as if she knew me, and knew my work, which she didn’t. She then said to me, “Well, if you don’t want to do marketing and you don’t want to do desk, it sounds like you have a problem with staffing to me.” She had a big ego for this being our first conversation. My blood was boiling, hi anger coming in hot. I could have said nothing, played Minnesota nice, aka fake, used all the excuses about growing up here culturally, “I hate conflict,” “I don’t do conflict,” “Conflict scares me,” or “I have to suck this up because that’s what I did as a kid.” I took a deep breath, used my self-soothers, and thought no, I need to call this shit out. I told my boss something along the lines of, “No I am good at what I do. I don’t have a problem with staffing because I’ve been working here for close to a year, without benefits, bonuses, and as a temp. I’m in graduate school and doing something completely different, in which case my loyalty speaks for itself. I’m confident in my abilities and I am not interested in marketing or desking.” She had nothing to say and thanked me for the one-on-one. This sat with me the wrong way. Her boss, who loved me, had been with the company for years and knew my work ethic, had a one-on-one with me too. I had to tell her what happened, she gasped, and her mouth was on the floor. She said, “Are you serious she said that to you?” I told her yes and this was not okay with me. She agreed and who knows if they had words after. I vowed to myself to never again be shamed, manipulated, or bullied into something I did not want to do. Clearly what this boss was doing was trying to manipulate me into doing what she wanted, aka abuse, whether or not she knew it. I wasn’t having it. With having 8 years of undergrad and grad school in psychology, I knew that I would not tolerate this from her, let alone anybody. I learned to use my voice, call shame out for what it is, and do this with anyone who tries to tell me what to do or shame me in my life overall.
Let’s talk about breaking down shame. I’m not going to talk about Brene Brown’s badass research and definitions, if you ever read this one day Brene, thank you for the work you’ve done. My work has been influenced by you, other writers, and researchers. My psychological theory on shame is that it is like a wave. Whether or not we recognize shame can hit us at various speeds, in different directions, and most of the time we do feel it. Shame is overt and covert. An example of overt shame is my ex-boss telling me I had a problem with staffing, when I didn’t at all, trying to shame my thoughts, feelings, and beliefs on my job situation there. She couldn’t have been more wrong. Her statement was calculated and I saw through it. Covert shame, on the other hand, is much more difficult to recognize. An example of covert shame is when I told another therapist at a brunch that I hosted a few summers ago, that I was going to change my schedule. I wanted to only work with clients in therapy, coaching, and consulting on Tuesdays and Wednesdays for the summer. It’s cold, sh*tty, and snowy for half the year here in Minnesota, so I am going to enjoy my summer and talk to clients about this. He said to me, “Yeah, that’s great if you can do that,” I replied, smiling and head nodding, saying, “Yeah I am going to!” You may wonder or think, Jackie how is that shame? I don’t get it. It’s covert because this is a double-take, “Wait, what moment?” type of shame. I reflected on this further, and thought, what the actual f*ck? As if I need to be present 24/7 for my clients. Therapists whether they admit it, know it, or not, a lot of times, have a martyrdom syndrome. Therapists have been programmed and brainwashed into believing that we need to work tons of hours, have certain availability, and rearrange our schedules or lives for clients. This is not true. At an academic level, I’ve been told, Jackie if you don’t want to work nights, couples won’t see you during the day. False, I have had many couples, prioritize, schedule, and plan to carve out 80-minute sessions with me weekly when needed if they wanted to work with me that bad. If they didn’t, good, I’m not the therapist for them and I don’t have scarcity mindset because of that. There’s so much scarcity embedded into shame, that is hard to recognize. Lots of therapists need to level up, own their boundaries, own their businesses, and own their lives. We have to treat ourselves as celebrities and CEOs especially if we are small business owners, who want to help people feel better. If we don’t feel great about what we’re doing, that’s going to show up in sessions, whether you know it or not. If we’re asking clients to work on their mental, emotional, or psychological health and wellness, we therapists need to also work on and be with our shame work. We need to start practicing what we’re preaching. We can’t do that if we aren’t working our ideal schedule, with ideal clients, and end up resenting ourselves. I vowed to myself I’d never do that. I can’t count on anyone else to have these conversations with my clients. If I wanted this bad enough that summer, I would prioritize it, and sure as shit, I did, and all my clients stuck with me. By modeling my ideal schedule, talking about boundaries, and money, upping my rates, and speaking my truth with clients in session, on my website, and in the initial consultation, is me doing and being with my shame work and staying shameless. No one else can do that for me.
Due to all the shame, and complex trauma, and how it is embedded into so many areas of my life, I’ve created many tools I have used personally, professionally, and use with my clients. A lot of times these are my shame personalities and behaviors inventories. How shame shows up in sex, relationships, business, and life. Along with other shameless inventories, sexercises, and tools, they may help people do and be with their shame work, when it comes to therapy, coaching, or consulting. I’ve taught other therapists on this in CEUs, and workshops, and give away free content via social media, my blog, and my newsletter. We can’t bypass our shame work. When we break down shame, what it means for ourselves, and others, and shameful experiences, it’s important not to perpetuate these shame cycles in our society. Staying shameless means doing and being with your shame work, speaking the f*ck up, calling out shit, picking and choosing your battles, and building confidence by breaking down the shame. This is where I get my confidence from and how I stay shameless.
Thanks for sharing that. So, before we get any further into our conversation, can you tell our readers a bit about yourself and what you’re working on?
I’m a Sex Therapist, Business Coach, Consultant, Reiki Practitioner, Astrologer, Tarot/Oracle Energy Reader, and more! I own my Private Practice in Minnesota, Shameless Therapy & Consulting Services, and have had my business since October 2021.
I treat DSM-5 sexual functioning diagnoses or symptoms clients may be experiencing in therapy. I help people in sexual wellness and business coaching services to transform into their shameless selves! In business, life, sex, and spiritual self! What’s most exciting about what I do is, I am allowed to use holistic healing tools, my shame exercises, astrology, tarot, crystals, oracle cards, journal prompts, shadow work, my oracle decks, and sexercises with clients seeking help. I love that I am my boss and get to do whatever the hell I want!
I am hosting a Women’s Retreat this upcoming May, from the 23-27th all for women who want restoration & inspiration. Since May is Women’s Month, Mental Health Month, & Masturbation May, I felt called to host my first retreat that sprinkles in these themes of wellness for women. We will have time to rest, relax, retreat, as well as, have a Full Moon Celebration Ceremony, Spa Self Care Day, Slumber Party Movie Nights, A Play Day Theme: Dress As The Barbie You Are Empowered & Inspired To Be, & more! This can be found on my website here: https://www.shamelesstherapy.org/self-care-shop-mn ***Only 4 spots left, grab your spot ASAP this will sell out!!
Outside of 1:1 therapy, coaching, & consulting services, I do have my Thursdays dedicated to spiritual wellness services. I have several different oracle decks
I created and use in readings for people. People can either book a recorded or live energy reading with me, reiki, or an astrology birth chart reading too!
This can be found on my scheduling link here: https://shamelesstherapyinminneapolis.as.me/schedule/d1fec5ab
I am also on IG: https://www.instagram.com/shamelesslysexyjackie/
I also do free collective sex tarot energy reads here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfWB2jmSDf0267H4D_CHqRA
Sign up for my FREE newsletter where I’ll be sharing some shameless secrets of what I’m launching next!! You won’t wanna miss it!!
https://www.shamelesstherapy.org/newsletter
Looking back, what do you think were the three qualities, skills, or areas of knowledge that were most impactful in your journey? What advice do you have for folks who are early in their journey in terms of how they can best develop or improve on these?
#1-Honesty. Be honest with yourself about what you can and cannot do in life. Trust your thoughts, feelings, and ideas about any situation life throws at you. Know that you do not have to rush or be pushed into making fast decisions. Oftentimes, when we do that, we regret it and it’s not the best thing for us, but rather someone else, at the end of the day.
#2-Accountability. Hold yourself and others accountable. Don’t deflect or avoid hard conversations in life. This will only stress you and your mental health in the future.
#3-Integrity. Say what you mean, mean what you say. If you have to answer a question such as, “I don’t know,” or “I may need to take some time with this,” then say that. Then follow through, up, and be present for people. Don’t waste people’s time by breadcrumbing them.
Awesome, really appreciate you opening up with us today and before we close maybe you can share a book recommendation with us. Has there been a book that’s been impactful in your growth and development?
The Secret. I listened to that book in a few short hours, then bought the permanent copy to be shipped to me from Amazon the next day. It has some spiritual undertones, yes, and there are so many psychological factors in this book that I wish, as a therapist, this book was required reading. It’s inspiring and helps remove bullshit blockages regarding mindset, following your dreams, and taking the damn steps to do so.
Contact Info:
- Website: https://www.shamelesstherapy.org/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shamelesslysexyjackie/
- Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-golob/
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfWB2jmSDf0267H4D_CHqRA
Image Credits
Anna Min, my badass friend 🙂 https://minenterprises.com/test https://www.instagram.com/annamin369/ https://www.instagram.com/sokospa/ Saj Fernando, my other badass friend 🙂 https://www.instagram.com/saj_fernando/
