We recently connected with Laura Carr and have shared our conversation below.
Laura, we are so deeply grateful to you for opening up about your journey with mental health in the hops that it can help someone who might be going through something similar. Can you talk to us about your mental health journey and how you overcame or persisted despite any issues? For readers, please note this is not medical advice, we are not doctors, you should always consult professionals for advice and that this is merely one person sharing their story and experience.
As I reviewed the questions something that stood out for me is that some questions are posed in the past tense. In my experience, rarely is anything ever finished. Content maybe, but never process. I integrate the spiritual into everything that I do. For me, that is Zen Awareness Practice. What people are called to spiritually is unique to each person. It is my experience that everyone and everything is spiritual given that we are sentient beings. In my practice I look for the process that is occurring with whatever content is currently in front of me. This could be applied to every question on your list which made it tricky to choose. I chose the one related to mental health for 3 reasons. The first is that mental health has an unnecessary stigma. Mental health applies to all of us as we all have it, given that it is a universally shared aspect of being human. The more it can be openly discussed, the better. Everyone has mental health issues. Everyone! Just because we aren’t in crisis doesn’t mean our mental health doesn’t require attention. The second reason is that it is vital for those of us in the position of mental health provider, to be taking care of our mental health and being transparent about it. I have always benefitted from the compassionate transparency of my mentors and do my best to follow their lead. Lastly, I’m in the middle of taking a very serious step in the care of my mental health, so the timing is apropos.
My definition of trauma is “anything that overwhelms the nervous system.” With that as our definition, who hasn’t experienced trauma. A couple of years ago I decided to return to therapy to address some trauma issues that were previously hidden from me. I chose EMDR because I had been in talk therapy for many years and while this was extremely helpful, I intuitively knew I needed something different. I thought, “I’ll do EMDR for a solid year and knock this trauma out!” That was 2 ½ years ago and I’m still going. I chuckle as I write this as it reminds me of the saying, “We make plans and God laughs.” Recently, I decided to devote more time into my Zen Awareness practice. Combining the power of the trauma work to spiritual awareness practice requires courage, willingness and dedication; it continues to be transformative.
In my experience, psychotherapy can only take one so far. We all are tasked at some point to go beyond the logical and explore the spiritual. It is my experience that that is who we are, spiritual beings, however that speaks to you. We are inherent goodness, intelligence, unconditional love. As children, in the process of socialization, we were required to turn away from all of that and a survival system was created. We then learned to believe that the social conditioning and the survival system is who we are and we tend to create lives that replicate the trauma. If we are lucky enough, we will encounter enough struggle that we are forced to confront what isn’t working anymore. This doesn’t feel kind when it is happening. It often feels unfair and cruel. But if we choose, we can use that suffering to find our way back to our authenticity, our inherent goodness. In how I practice psychotherapy, that is what therapy is, the chance to come home to yourself.
My history and my symptomology, in the world of psychology could qualify for a diagnosis of C-PTSD; complex post-traumatic stress disorder. While fitting, I don’t find labels especially helpful. I find that they feed into the orientation of a “problem that needs to be fixed” and this fuels stigmatization and reinforces the belief that something is wrong with us. We are not “problems that need to be fixed.” We are sentient beings who had to identify with the very survival system that is now wrecking havoc with our lives.
How do I not let my “mental health issues” derail me? This is a great question. We first have to recognize and prioritize that this my mental health is vital to my overall wellbeing. Then, I can take responsibility for what my mental health needs are and that is different for every person. For me, facing the way trauma was continuing to derail my life and my relationships was crucial. In doing that, I learn to love myself. I know, I know, it sounds corny. Isn’t that sad, that loving ourselves has been turned into “something corny.” And what is considered strong is to “suck it up, get an internal beating, don’t let it show, and then not tell anyone about it. And, then we are expected to be kind, loving and productive. How is that possible. That approach cannot lead to kindness. EVER! Additionally, how can we ever expect to feel loved, if we can’t do that for ourselves. How are we ever supposed to love, if we don’t start with ourselves first? Learning to love and be present with ourselves is not what we are taught to do. It isn’t modeled. Authentic or essential self-care is not in the temporary actions of pedicures, doom scrolls, substances, spa treatments, taking a trip, binge-watching something or buying ourselves something new. These can feel nice for a short period of time, but they can keep the dysfunction going and lead to feeling worse. It’s like painting over a wall that has “issues” of mold. We cover it up and can’t see it. But give it time and it will show itself again and, in the meantime, continues to emit toxins and impact the environment of the walls and the room. Just like our denial does to our body, our relationships and our lives.
What I do for my own wellbeing is, therapy as needed, being in nature, formal meditation, time with my spiritual community, movement that is respectful of my body and my time, reading and listening to things that support my wellbeing, connecting with the people who add to my life, boundaries with my time, a nutritious vegetarian diet, giving back and laughter, lots of laughter. I also absolutely enjoy getting massages, pedicures, take myself out for meals and such.
Let’s take a small detour – maybe you can share a bit about yourself before we dive back into some of the other questions we had for you?
In 2002 I read a book called, There Is Nothing Wrong With You, by Cheri Huber. My husband had been involved with Buddhism for many years before he met me and I actually bought the book for him and then I read it. It changed everything for me. Cheri is Zen student and teacher andShe founded A Center for the Practice of Zen Buddhist Meditation. Her approach just resonated with me. It is a form of what I refer to as “psychological Zen.” She calls is Zen Awareness Practice. I went on my first retreat with her in 2006 and have never looked back. I now train with her.
It is a tough combination as a small counseling practice owner to offer low cost counseling services and make enough money to support yourself, let alone a family. During my psychotherapy training I was part of a many non-profit agencies. I learned what I loved and what I didn’t. My vision was multifaceted based on these training experiences. I wanted to offer low cost counseling services offered by professionals that had training from an orientation of compassion and non-pathology. And, I wanted to offer a training site to pre-licensed therapists that offered an orientation of compassion and non-pathology. In 2012 I created a not-for-profit agency and Center for Mindful Relationships was born.
My husband is also a psychotherapist and we share a passion for a compassionate, non-pathologizing approach to psychotherapy. We had both been providing supervision to pre-licensed therapists for years and were often asked, “what is your theoretical orientation?” Which is a good question for a student to ask. Given our approaches, the current psychology models didn’t fit our framework. We ended up naming our own approach; Compassion Based Awareness Therapy (CBAT). Our orientation borrows from many of the theoretical orientations we resonate. The main ones being: Attachment theory, Humanistic psychology, Family Systems, Experiential psychology, Neuro-psychology, Psychodynamic, Imago Therapy and Buddhist psychology. Maybe it is because neither of us are rule followers, but I believe it is our training in Zen Awareness Practice that is the basis of it all. In Zen, the teaching is to “have your own experience.” What I love about this is that no one can really be taught anything. We can be pointed in the direction but if we want to be good at something, we must first be interested in it, next, find someone we admire who is good at that thing and then put it to practice for ourselves and learn by application and repetition. Repetition, repetition, repetition with a willing spirit and a great support system.
Much of therapists training is focused on “learn a theory” and are focused on techniques and “doing” things to clients. In CBAT, we offer an approach to our therapists-in-training and our clients that allows them a way to find their way back to their authenticity and to learn to spot all the barriers that keep them from that authenticity. Yes, they learn things. They are learning how to pay attention, gaining awareness of what is happening within them and learning how to do that through the lens of compassion. Learning can never happen through fear or shame. Never.
Our agency doesn’t utilize grants or government funding. We currently don’t even solicit for donations. This allows us to provide training and services that are in alignment with the principals of Compassion Based Awareness.
One of the many blessings of having Center for Mindful Relationships is being in the energy of beginning therapists. They embody many qualities that Zen teacher, Shunryu Suzuki identified as beginner’s mind as having “an innocence of inquiry, an ability to remain open while holding possibility and doubt at the same time, and a tendency to see anything fresh and new.” Learning is an ongoing process and we always want to foster the thrill of learning in others and in ourselves. Shunryu Suzuki illustrates this point with his words, “If you lose the spirit of repetition, your practice will become quite difficult.” I want to offer the world, or at least my little corner of the world the wisdom and power of awareness practice, integrated into the wisdoms of psychology.
I could talk about Awareness Practice for hours and hours, but I will stop there.
If you had to pick three qualities that are most important to develop, which three would you say matter most?
The trait I always come back to is that I have never given up. I had many conditioned reasons to as I operated in life believing I didn’t have a right to exist, but my survival skills of masking saved me until I could learn other, more adaptive skills and I could confront that conditioned lie that had formed as a belief early in my childhood. I didn’t have the term for it before I found Zen, but I have always had some version of a “beginner’s mind.” I have always questioned things that didn’t make sense. My survival strategy of conforming existed externally, but there were things that just never made sense to me, which allowed me to be open, even if that opening was the size of a wee crack. Another quality is reading and exposing myself to authors who spoke to those questions. The first book I read that allowed me to challenge the dysfunction of the religious abuse I endured was, Going Home: Jesus and the Buddha are brothers, by Thich Nhat Hanh. My therapist at the time recommended it to me. Her recommendation was key, as I trusted her, but I had to get the book and read it. This expanded my experience to include information that resonated with me, but I had been taught to be afraid of that information and thus reject it, judge it. Then there is the book I mentioned earlier, There is Nothing Wrong with You: Going Beyond Self-Hate, by Zen teacher, Cheri Huber. This book blew the doors wide open for me as she was speaking language I cold wholly relate to even though I couldn’t articulate it.
My encouragement to all those I work with is to be open, question everything and trust the process. Life is on our side whether we believe it or not. As a Buddhist I don’t believe in a deity, and have no objection to those who do. Life, God, Allah, the Universe, energy, love, it’s all the same. I’m not sure who said it, but I like it, “there is nothing that isn’t God.” I once heard Cheri Huber talk about it as “the intelligence that animates all” and nothing has ever resonated deeper. I just didn’t know what that was and to be honest, still don’t. At least not with words. I feel it though and I know just what she means.
What book has played an important role in your development and what were a few of the most valuable or impactful nuggets of wisdom?
I referred to two books in my last prompt response, Going Home: Jesus and the Buddha are brothers, by Thich Nhat Hanh and There is Nothing Wrong with You: Going Beyond Self-Hate, by Zen teacher, Cheri Huber. I could point to several, but the work of Cheri Huber has been life changing as it consistently points to process. If we do not understand the process of what is happening within us that is causing the suffering, we can never be free of it. We won’t know how to free ourselves from the process of suffering. We live in a “self-help” culture that is really only good for one thing – capitalism. What is does is reinforces two things, one that there is a self to help, which is a very simple, but complicated Buddhist concept that has taken me years to have a sense of and I won’t even try to put it into words here because I will fail miserably. And the second is it implies that we need to be “fixed.” Those two messages reinforce suffering. We keep trying to solve our content problems: weight, money, relationship, job, personality, anger, sex, addiction, add your own. These are all symptoms of not knowing who we authentically are, which is loving kindness, innocence, compassion. Content will never get solved at a content level. And if the purpose is to solve the “problem” so I am a “good” or “better” person, it perpetuates the self-hate, which is actually the root of the issue. As much as we as a society have deemed it “corny,” the adage is true, we’ve got to love ourselves! As long as we place our value, our lovability, our worthiness on the externals, we will suffer. Our behavior will always reflect how we really feel about ourselves.
When I read There’s Nothing Wrong with You, I had already done a tremendous amount of psychotherapy and made great strides. I’d overcame an eating disorder that nearly killed me. I’d completed graduate school and was an established psychotherapist. I was married. We owned a home, had a dog and planning to have children. When I finished that book, it spoke to an intuition that there was deeper shame lurking to confront. And that is the work I’ve been doing ever since. It radically altered my work as a psychotherapist as I began to practice with and integrate the wisdom of the teachings. I am actively engaged in that work still.
Another powerful realm of knowledge is the wealth of information now readily available about trauma and the body. No one author has been life changing, they all speak to the same knowledge in their own unique and necessary lens. The body of knowledge in neuropsychology and trauma that I have been impacted by is the work of Francine Shapiro, Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, and Stephen Porges (although I find his writing difficult to digest and appreciate the writing of Deb Dana). There are more authors and more reading I am doing but there is only so much time available. What I love and find so ironic about all of this is how science is now validating what Buddhism and the sages have been speaking to for centuries, we must be still, pay attention and notice, we are not our thoughts, we are not our emotions, we are what is aware of that.
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